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Mysterious tablet with unknown language unearthed in Georgia (archaeologymag.com)
125 points by speckx on Dec 13, 2024 | hide | past | favorite | 97 comments


Actual paper: http://dx.doi.org/10.14795/j.v11i3.1035

Assuming it's not a forgery, the tablet is unusual in that it appears to be made from locally sourced basalt, but no burials or ancient settlements are known in the area, except for a historic road that was built much later. However, the researchers speculate about a potential ancient settlement in the vicinity of what is now an artificial lake:

>Drone research (Fig. 6) revealed that the area of approximately 4 km2 is divided into geometrical shapes contoured by means of white stones brought from somewhere else. Special, in-depth studies showed entire sets of regular circles that could be burial mounds; the rectangular, semicircular and combined geometric figures could be the remains of houses, defense structures and places of worship.


The link you gave us to the actual paper doesn't work, but the PDF can be downloaded from https://jaha.org.ro/index.php/JAHA/article/download/1035/616

The caption to one of the photos in the article does mention an inscription on an altar, which goes well with “… and places of worship.”


Link doesn't work for for me (not found error), but this one does (including pdf d/l): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/385937685_Journal_o...


Something very cool about the Georgian language is that its family, the Kartvelian family, has no known relation to any other language family. It's one of the world's primary language families. Its origin, including the alphabet, is very mysterious.


The alphabet is so cool, strong resemblance to Tolkien's elvish. Especially when you find a ruined castle or monastery in the mountains with that script on the gate.

Though I recall on my first trip there being told that the origin of the Georgian script was the developer of the Armenian script tossing some spaghetti on the wall.


If you think that's cool, then reading about Paleo-Siberian languages would be down your alley.

Lots of language isolates and interesting paleohistory. Yenesian will never stop wrinkling my brain.


Your sentence makes it sound like Yeniseian languages are language isolates, but what is absolutely astounding is that Yeniseian languages seem to form a family with the Na-Dene languages of North America. Two language families separated by the Bering strait over 15000 years ago!


Yep! And it's absolutely amazing! The distant brethren of Navajo basically destroyed the Han Empire 2000 years ago.


That actually is really cool. That implies a certain degree of isolation for A very long time. Do genetics in that area have any interesting patterns?


It can imply isolation, but not necessarily. It is also possible that there are some precursor languages, of which no evidence could be found (yet). Another good example are the Koreanic languages of which modern Korean is a member.

The Ket language of central Siberia has long been believed to be isolate, but was later classified as a member of the Dene–Yeniseian language family (or at least proposed, afaik this research is still ongoing).


That's fair, but also just as interesting. What are the chances that language is older than we thought? And if decent chances, how much older? Were early hominids capable of speaking?

Wild to think about.


> What are the chances that language is older than we thought?

This find is about a script in an unknown language.

The question about how old spoken languages are is of course unrelated and can't be answered since it predates history ;-)


There could also be a distant relationship with the Brahmi script / family [1]

Some characters have similarities. The Brahmi 𑀕 may be related to the <Gimel> 𐤂 character in the tablet. Other characters like the "tha" (the O with a dot in the middle), the (, the O, the ) and some others also appear to have common traits.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahmi_script


There almost certainly is a distant relationship. Almost all writing systems in Eurasia are derived from the Egyptian hieroglyphics through the Phoenician script, which gave us the Greek, Latin, Syriac, Hebrew, Arabic, and the Brahmi script, among others. The only system in use today in the whole world which isn't derived from Phonecian is Chinese and even there its derivatives like Japanese kana and Korean hangul were influenced by knowledge of alphabetic writing via India.

To find something unrelated would be monumental and would suggest another culture independently invented writing, something known to have happened only a few times (Egypt, China, Mesopotamia, Mayans, maybe the Indus Valley civilization, plus a handful of other disputed instances).


> An initial comparative analysis conducted with over 20 languages shows that the characters, which could belong to an aboriginal Caucasian population, beside proto-Georgian and Albanian writing signs, bear some similarities with Semitic, Brahmani, and North Iberian characters.


Odd to see so many are confused about the country of Georgia. I thought it is known for having a unique language, and thus the first place of the two Georgias where one would expect a mysterious tablet with an unknown language to be found.


wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_plates


Those are made up by a con man that went by the name Joseph Smith, but not even he claimed they were found in Georgia...


Ever concider it might be runic. Many of those symbols look runic. I would translate the first two symbols to say fortunate lake the last looks like the runic symbol for protection. Thanks ben stiles


Hmm, looks like my password!

edit: dang, looks like I'll have to change my password again


Hasn't IT told you that you shouldn't write your password on basalt tablets? Time for another IT Security compliance e-training...


Ever concider it might be runic. Many of those symbols look runic. I would translate the first two symbols to say fortunate lake the last looks like the runic symbol for protection. Thanks ben stiles


It's strange how the alphabet looks like Tifinagh (Berber alphabet).


> Archaeologists have speculated that the writing may have recorded military spoils, construction projects, or offerings to deities, though definitive interpretations remain elusive.

So they know jack shit. Just as likely to be for accounting purposes, like a large number of Sumerian tablets.


First rule of archeology: if you don’t know what it’s for, it’s probably religious reasons.


It's a ritual object! Like those porcelain objects left by the Nacirema.

https://www.sfu.ca/~palys/Miner-1956-BodyRitualAmongTheNacir...


A seminal work that influenced David Macaulay's lesser-known efforts.


That was an enlightening read. Such odd customs…


Seems like in here, two of the three listed possibilities are practical.


Return the slab, or suffer my curse.


The man in gauze, the man in gauze.


So very many nightmares from that as a child.

Who thought that was a good idea for kids? I mean, it was an awesome show, but still.


The tablet was unearthed in Georgia (country), not Georgia (U.S. state).


It would be nice if the Georgians requested changing country name to Sakartvelo, the local name. It would be longer but less confusing.


It would be amusing if they changed the name to Iberia. Which was, after all, the traditional name of the country in Europe.


The Spaniards and the Portuguese people will be equally pissed, then.


Too bad. They've had many centuries to unite their peninsula into a single country, and didn't do it, so they don't deserve any special consideration for the name "Iberia".


They got (at least) very close to that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iberian_Union:

“The Iberian Union is a historiographical term used to describe the personal union of the Kingdom of Portugal with the Monarchy of Spain, which in turn was itself the dynastic union of the crowns of Castile and Aragon, and of their respective colonial empires, that existed between 1580 and 1640 and brought the entire Iberian Peninsula except Andorra, as well as Portuguese and Spanish overseas possessions, under the Spanish Habsburg monarchs Philip II, Philip III, and Philip IV. The union began after the Portuguese succession crisis of 1580 and the ensuing War of the Portuguese Succession, and lasted until the Portuguese Restoration War, during which the House of Braganza was established as Portugal's new ruling dynasty with the acclamation of John IV as the new king of Portugal.”


Requested of who? I don't think we need to wait around for people to ask us to start calling their country what they call it.


Perhaps these folks at the UN: https://unterm.un.org/unterm2/en/ who maintain a list of names for countries, with both long form and short form in 6 different languages.


The Unicode Consortium maintains a similar database, the CLDR, but it covers considerably more than just 6 languages.


Türkiye did that a few years ago


Trying to get the English name for the country to include a letter that does not exist in English is just the kind of trolling we've grown to expect.


I'm curious how people pronounce this when they've never heard it. Do people assume the 'e' is silent as in "eye". For anyone curious it's basically "Turkey-yeah" & the "yeah" is short.


How about Turkey-Ye with Ye as in Kanye. I think the vowel sound would be closer.


Côte d'Ivoire and Burkina Faso instilled their current names as the only acceptable names for a long time. Pretty successfully though.


Terrible decision. Upper Volta was the coolest country name on Earth. Who wouldn't tremble before the Upper Voltaic Ambassador?


I wonder if there was a current that offered some resistance to it but was overpowered


Sankara was pretty big on breaking with western influences and going back to local culture. The Upper Voltaic Ambassador title was an unfortunate victim of that


Sorry but where is the list? I needed one in 2021 and ended up building my own out of Wikipedia and common sense but if the UN has one I'd rather use it.


https://unterm.un.org/unterm2/en/country

Note the "Download country names" button, and the "Display results in" language toggles.


ah! nice, i really didn't notice it


We don't need to wait around, but people are going to treat you differently if you start casually saying "my friend visited Deutschland on holiday." Even Germans will probably think you're doing some sort of bit.


Or worse, start saying just the country name with a German accent, the way that the pretentious news readers like to pronounce Spanish names with a Spanish accent. But only Spanish names. Not other countries.


or changing US Georgia to Muscogee?


Or perhaps something like Kartvelia in English since, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_(country)#Names_of_Geo...: "The Georgian circumfix sa-X-o is a standard geographic construction designating 'the area where X dwell', where X is an ethnonym."


The family of languages that includes Georgian is the Kartvelian family. So there’s already some precedent for Kartvelia (noun)/Kartvelian (adjective) in English.


Kartveli, country to be called Kartveli. Sa is a language prefix


That's a nice idea.


But .. it's already Sakartvelo.


I mean, it's a nice idea for us to use that name.


Like we use 中国 for China or Allemagne for Germany or ??


I don't think my keyboard handles the first very well (we did switch from spelling the city of "Peking" to "Beijing" though), but for the latter, sure.

In some cases name changes are political so I could see there being resistance to going along, if the politics doesn't align.


Deutschland


Yes, I was making a little joke :-)


It's less confusing if you understand its name in Farsi, which is Gorgistan. The regional neighbors of it all have unique names for it that don't overlap with the US state.


Georgia (King George) not Georgia (st. George)


Would have been far more interesting and mysterious if it was Georgia (U.S. state).


Would have been far more interesting and mysterious if it was Georgia (outer Main Belt asteroid).


What if it was all three at nearly the same time?


Add South Georgia to make it four


The mind boggles


you forgot South Georgia


Devil left it there when he last went down.


I heard he was lookin' for a soul to steal...


It's an after action report of a fiddling contest he lost.


Not really, Georgia (U.S. State) has a history of modern-manufactured stone tablets:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones


What a colossal waste of money and effort. The person or people who wasted their money on this project should have known better than to erect such a thing in the deep South.

From the Wikipedia article: "Some locals referred to its construction as 'the devil's work'. A local minister warned that "occult groups" would visit the site and that a sacrifice was imminent." Even worse: "Kandiss Taylor, a candidate in the 2022 Georgia Republican gubernatorial primary, called the Guidestones "Satanic" in a campaign ad"

With local culture this backwards, you can't expect something like this to last for long.


Or South Georgia


And a stone tablet, not a tablet computer.

As an ESL speaker, my first impression was "a tablet computer displaying unknown language found in Georgia, US". Feels like some extraterrestrial technology.


If it's old, it would have to be. NA natives had no written languages.


Decent gag that baits my click every time


We changed the URL from https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=67231 to the article it points to.

(despite loving Language Log)


Could you also fit "Republic of Georgia" somewhere in the title, so it isn't confused with the US state?


I think it's fine for readers to work a little*, and fine to expect this audience to know that there are two Georgias.

* https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...


Can you add (Country) to the title?


[flagged]


Odds are high that unicode will support it, however.


You ought to state WHAT Georgia tablets were found in.


[flagged]


I just heard a singing

Dum dum dum dum dum


I first learned that Georgia was a country when Russia invaded 16 years ago. I found the headline very confusing and shocking at the time. I took it as a lesson and haven't been confused by headlines about Georgia since.


Where are you from? All kids in my country learn the name and position of each country in the world before they are 12 years old.


I don’t think anyone but US people got confused by those headlines. Makes sense though. When there are two places with identical names, you hear more often about the one closest to you, so that’d be your first assumption.


Some Americans can't even visually distinguish the two: https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/us-news/yikes-trum...


Maybe they taught it in grade school, I don't know. I avoided learning much of what was taught in grade/middle/high school. I didn't learn the US states and their capitals either.

Of course if I had paid attention I probably would have just learned "USSR" at the time. But maybe that makes it even less forgivable since it was current events.


Where are you from? Many kids in my quite large country learn the name of 50 states and the capital city of each before they are 11.


According to many Americans, I'm from the country called Amsterdam, with the capital city of Copenhagen, where everybody speaks German.


Perhaps you're hanging around with the wrong Americans.




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